On Recursionism

Sep 18 2004  | Views 7754 |  Comments  (9)
Science has brought us the discovery of laws related to the macro and micro worlds. But between the domains of classical physics and quantum mechanics lies metaphysics that can only be addressed by philosophy --... Expand

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  Anand Nair posted 2 yrs ago

Truth_teller_1,

You seem to resort to weak humour when faced with views that you disagree with, but can't contradict!

Kak had made an absurd statement, "As animals, humans live their lives according to some specific script, derived from one of many religious or social ideologies."

Pointing this out, I raised the following points:- What does he mean by this? Are animals too influenced by ideologies -- religious or social? What is meant by a "specific script"? Is the reference to the genetic code?

Your own response to this is :- "Yes Nair, you are the living proof!"

This is terrible -- even as a joke. And this definitely, this leaves the serious questions I raised unanswered!

Anand Nair



  Truth_teller_1 posted 2 yrs ago

"Are animals too influenced by ideologies -- religious or social?"

Yes Nair, you are the living proof !

stay that way and keep smiling.



  Anand Nair posted 2 yrs ago

kris1024,

You asked, "What is 'it' that which is looking at chaos or order??"

The consensus seems to be emerging (among scientists) that "it" is an illusion -- or maya, if you may. "It" refers to our strong feeling of a "self", that is distinct from the rest of the material universe.

Scientific "monism" (or advaita) is the exact inverse of the vedantic concept. Matter is real, while the "self" is virtual. It seems that our ancients had rightly grasped the monistic nature of the universe -- only they undertood things upside down. Modern science is on the threshold of turning the vedantic concept, right side up...

Have you read the link I gave? Here it is again:-

Presidential Address of the American Philosophical Association 2000-2001

http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/PresidentialAddress.pdf ]

(Some Buddhist schools (such as anatta) had postulated that atma is virtual, and matter real...)

Anand Nair



  kris1024 posted 2 yrs ago

What is 'it' that which is looking at chaos or order??



  Anand Nair posted 2 yrs ago

I would recommend reading the following Address by Daniel Dennett (just 19 pages) to those interested in a clearer understanding of the "manifestations of order" in the Cosmos:-

Presidential Address of the American Philosophical Association 2000-2001

http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/PresidentialAddress.pdf ]

Anand Nair



  Anand Nair posted 2 yrs ago

Sulekha seemed to have dug up and featured a 2004 article by Subhash Kak. This has been "viewed" over 4000 times, and has three comments -- as on date. Actually only one comment -- if we remove the duplicate and a mere reference to a link by Kak.

One reason for this lack of excitement (or opposition) could be that the article is terribly vague and conveys nothing of any philosophical significance. Kak has used the phrase, "recursionism" -- without bothering to tell the readers what he means by this!

However, Kak goes on to assure us:- "Recursionism is the explanation why in an ant colony the castes adjust their populations to maintain definite proportions. "

I suppose some one can now go on to say that recursionism is the "explanation" for varna order in Hindu societies!

But as to HOW recursionism is the "explanation" for the social heirarchy among ants (or among humans in a feudal context) -- we are still at dark. Except in the sense that recursionism can be cited as the  "explanation" for everything in the world -- including the French Revolution and the recent dethronning of the monarch in Nepal...

Kak makes another absurd statement, "As animals, humans live their lives according to some specific script, derived from one of many religious or social ideologies. "

What does he mean by this? Are animals too influenced by ideologies -- religious or social? What is meant by a "specific script"? Is the reference to the genetic code?

Reading the longer article (whose link was provided by Kak) is of no use either. This does not at all illuminate, but adds to the opacity of the argument by stretching this to 118 pages! Just one example from this:-

"The beginning must thus be not of things, but of the order itself, together with the potential for all its manifestations"

Now, all that remains to be done is to define "order". Is this different from the thermodynamic defintion of the term? Is it at all meaningful to talk of "order", other than as an order of "things" (matter)? Can "order" be anything other than a "manifestation" of "things"?

These are the answers that we seek from philosophy. We can at least get partial answers (that are consistent with available knowledge of science) if we read say, Daniel Dennet.

Anand Nair



  Subhash Kak posted 3 yrs ago

For a longer version of this essay, see

www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/RReality.pdf

S.



  Bookworm33 posted 4 yrs ago

Subhash,

"Freedom is the capacity to choose one of the ideologies, although one becomes a prisoner as soon as one has made the choice. Creativity is the capacity to jump across the ideologies to connect to the archetypal patterns of existence and appearance"

Kind of like a dialogue from " the matrix" The moment we make a choice, we are stuck in the limitations of that choice. But a choice is also recurrent as it is poossible to unchoose and choose something different.

Brilliant!!!



  Bookworm33 posted 4 yrs ago

Subhash,

"Freedom is the capacity to choose one of the ideologies, although one becomes a prisoner as soon as one has made the choice. Creativity is the capacity to jump across the ideologies to connect to the archetypal patterns of existence and appearance"

Kind of like a dialogue from " the matrix" The moment we make a choice, we are stuck in the limitations of that choice. But a choice is also recurrent as it is poossible to unchoose and choose something different.

Brilliant!!!





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