How Old Is Indian Writing?

Dec 15 2003  | Views 33929 |  Comments  (23)
The traditional date for the Rigveda is about 3000 BC, with the later Vedic texts and the Brahmanas coming a few centuries later. The Aranyakas, Upanishads and the Sutras are, in this view, dated to the 2nd and early 1st millennia. The astronomical evidence in the texts is in accord with this view. Furthermore, the currently accepted... Expand

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  Jayant Harrison posted 4 yrs ago

It is astonishing to read some Western "scholars" still harp on the Semitic origin of Brahmi given the evidence in this column! Clearly that is happening because old racist attitudes die hard.



  Abraham Muthuswamy posted 4 yrs ago

The latest issue of Frontline carries a story on the early Brahmi inscriptions found in Sri Lanka:

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2112/stories/20040618003109700.htm



  Abraham Muthuswamy posted 4 yrs ago

Here's a useful source on later Indian scripts:

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/scripts.html

although it has many dead links and others that quote outdated theories.



  Bahadur Singh posted 4 yrs ago

To me the similarities between the Indus and Brahmi characters in similarly rank-ordered lists is convincing of their relationship. There is further evidence in the Cryptologia papers regarding case endings that is even more impressive. Such connections could not be coincidences; their odds against that are astronomical!
-Bahadur



  chakrapani singh posted 4 yrs ago

Earliest written evidence of Brahmi script available today is from Ashokan pillars;that is about 250 BC. As the engravings on the Ashokan pillars indicate a fully developed script system and widely spread, it can be easily guessed that that evolution of Brahmi must have started 2-3 centuries before.Therefore,Mr.Kak's estimate for age of Brahmi as500 BC appears to be reasonable.Further,Mr. Kak says that there is some evidence of Brahmi script in use in Shri Lanka in 500 BC. If it is so, then antiquity of Brahmi can be pushed back by further two centuries. Now Mr.Kak says that there is some mention about writing systems in some of the Upanishads/Brahman books then it's antiquity can be pushed back further. I would request Mr. Kak to elaborate and give details of the evidences he has found in these books.His evidences from Rigveda and Atharvaveda are not very obvious.
Thanx
CPS



  Dinkir posted 4 yrs ago

The following remarks of Raymond Allchin, quoted by Jack Goody in THE INTERFACE BETWEEN THE WRITTEN AND ORAL (London, Cambridge Univ Press, 1987, pp. 301-2) will interest many: "There is a powerful argument against the idea that the Brahmi script was derived from a Semitic borrowing. The whole structure and conception of the script is quite different and must, in my view, have had an independent genesis... I have always thought, the Brahmi script must have been there before the arrival of the Aramaic. In recent years I have been leaning towards the view that the Brahmi script had an independent Indian evolution, probably emerging from the breakdown of the old Harappan script perhaps in the first half of the second millennium B.C."

For those who would like to compare the Harappan seals with later seals from the historical period, see K.K. Thaplyal, STUDIES IN THE ANCIENT INDIAN SEALS (Lucknow, Akhila Bharatiya Sanskrit Parishad, 1972).

-SK


Posted by Shaeed on Dec 21, 2003

If Hindus censor criticism of hinduism why DEMOCKEERY of democracy be BELIEVED by thses IItian And Code Coolies And Code specialist Donated Medical College DEGREES

Posted by Manoj 2003 Gupta on Dec 20, 2003

In the U.S. many Hindus are reading about Kak, though in India few know him as he has never published any article in any major Indian newspaper. The few that know Kak in India mention that he is not an honest person and has a clear cut agenda. He lies distorts facts pushes data which undermine the originality of the Indian civilization and tends to create a confusion in the Indian society which could then enable our culture to be manipulated in order to further the interests of foreign elements. These very elements who are backing Kak know that he is an opportunistic person and could switch sides. Kak drinks, eats beaf, lacks guts and is a foriegn propped up plant. It is established beyond doubt that Sanskrit is the mother of all Indo-Euprpean languages and the Aryan Race originated in India. The so-called divide of North-South in India on racial lines is fake and most of us are from the same race. Rajput and others respect all religions (who have written our history) and have regard for all cultures but India is an original civilzation which has not originated from any other civilization be it to the Negro, Mongoloid, Semitic, etc. Also Rajput and collegues know the Negro theory of man is a Western conspiracy for obvious reasons. The West does not even know where an atom came
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***************************

Kashmiri PUNDITS without HINDU avid PROPPING and PRivileged SUPPORT could not

SUPRESS subjugate TORTURE and OPPRESS KASHMIRI ..


it is DUMB illogical PUNDITS poor BRAIN who like KAK are SPREADING fanatiscism
extremism and HINDUTVA Communalism


in


INDIA


b/c I have 50years of TEACHING pundits


from K.G. to PH. D writing



  Subhash Kak posted 4 yrs ago

The following remarks of Raymond Allchin, quoted by Jack Goody in THE INTERFACE BETWEEN THE WRITTEN AND ORAL (London, Cambridge Univ Press, 1987, pp. 301-2) will interest many: "There is a powerful argument against the idea that the Brahmi script was derived from a Semitic borrowing. The whole structure and conception of the script is quite different and must, in my view, have had an independent genesis... I have always thought, the Brahmi script must have been there before the arrival of the Aramaic. In recent years I have been leaning towards the view that the Brahmi script had an independent Indian evolution, probably emerging from the breakdown of the old Harappan script perhaps in the first half of the second millennium B.C."

For those who would like to compare the Harappan seals with later seals from the historical period, see K.K. Thaplyal, STUDIES IN THE ANCIENT INDIAN SEALS (Lucknow, Akhila Bharatiya Sanskrit Parishad, 1972).

-SK



  Ramesh Rao posted 4 yrs ago

I find the Sulekha editorial decision not to allow any comments on the Victor Menezes/Sulekha publicity blurb masking as an essay both interesting and dangerous.
If indeed that is the decision of Sulekha, and Sulekha wants to stick with it, it is time that the writers and readers who have made Sulekha to a large extent what it is, now should have the courage of their conviction to throw down a gauntlet to Satya Prabhakar.

Mine is this: If Sulekha will not reverse its decision, I will ask that all my essays, poems, articles on Sulekha be removed forthwith.

Ramesh Rao



  Subhash Kak posted 4 yrs ago

The data on Brahmi letters in Table 1 is from the Ashokan inscriptions. Also, the map should have shown an arrow reaching the Philippines. Here's a brief note on that:

Kavi, a borrowed Philippine script
by Hector Santos

The script used in the LCI [Laguna Copperplate Inscription of 900 AD]was Kavi, an extinct Javanese script universally used in Southeast Asia during 600-1500 A.D. Kavi is considered to be the progenitor of most Southeast Asian scripts including Lampong, Rejang, and Batak of Sumatra as well as Buginese and Macassarese of Sulawesi, one of which was probably the source of other ancient Philippine scripts.

All Southeast Asian scripts, including Kavi, are syllabaries which means that each symbol represents one complete syllable. They can ultimately be traced back to Brahmi from India's Ashokan era (200-300 B.C.). Brahmi spawned Grantha ("palm leaf writing") of the Pallava era, the old script of South India used in writing Vedic Sanskrit.

Kavi descended with very little change from Grantha, a "perfect" syllabary in the sense that it had symbols for all the sounds of the language it represented. Grantha had at least 48 basic symbols including a full set of vowels and diphthongs. The system allowed for a very accurate rendering of the spoken language it represented, much better than what our own Latin alphabet does for English.

The script spread from South India and was adopted by many groups in Southeast Asia. Sometimes, it was modified to accommodate the group's language. More often than not, the script was simplified not for linguistic reasons but because of the adopting group's lesser level of cultural achievement. By the time the script reached Sumatra, there were only 19-21 basic symbols left. When it reached the Philippines, only 17 were left.

One of the mysteries posed by the LCI is how a very sophisticated script like Kavi which took root early in the Philippines could be replaced later by a primitive one like the ancient Tagalog script.

Santos, Hector. "Kavi, a borrowed Philippine script" in A Philippine Leaf at http://www.bibingka.com/dahon/lci/kavi.htm. US, October 26, 1996.



  Shaeed posted 5 yrs ago

If Hindus censor criticism of hinduism why DEMOCKEERY of democracy be BELIEVED by thses IItian And Code Coolies And Code specialist Donated Medical College DEGREES





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